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Poster:
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oh_uh_um_ah |
Date:
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July 20, 2009 05:40:27pm |
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
You should read the Koran once spaceface...
you might learn something...
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Poster:
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spacedface |
Date:
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July 20, 2009 06:06:20pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
The Quran didn't seem to help you, but it's not over yet.
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Poster:
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oh_uh_um_ah |
Date:
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July 20, 2009 09:58:29pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
The Koran reminded me of Mein Kampf...
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Poster:
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spacedface |
Date:
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July 20, 2009 10:04:16pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
oh_uh_um_ah July 20, 2009 09:58:29pm
>>The Koran reminded me of Mein Kampf... >>
How?
This post was modified by spacedface on 2009-07-21 05:04:16
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Poster:
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oh_uh_um_ah |
Date:
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July 20, 2009 10:12:38pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
isn't it obvious?
Mein Kampf is a book of hate and blame toward jews...so is the Koran...moron. My god, did you fuckin read these books, asswipe?
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Poster:
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spacedface |
Date:
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July 21, 2009 07:45:31am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
>>>Mein Kampf is a book of hate and blame toward jews...so is the Koran...moron. My god, did you fuckin read>>>
On the contrary, the Koran champions the Jewish prophets and the Messiah. It's the ones that side with polytheists for material gain that are warned against.
It says in several places something like ~ whoever believes and does good, whether Jewish, Christian, and [something] will find paradise~
It also says that God doesn't like aggressors, so don't be one -- talking to the Muslims -- and repeats many times forgiveness, feeding the hungry, freeing slaves, etc.
I haven't looked at it lately, but what I remember is a far cry from your selective reading.
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Poster:
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oh_uh_um_ah |
Date:
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July 21, 2009 03:24:28pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
You are a complete and total fucking moron.
JIHAD is not peace and love...or understanding...
Name a muslim pacifist from islam in the last 14 centuries.
Where in the Koran did mohamet say love your enemies?
Where in the Koran does mohamet teach muslims to treat Jews and Christians as equals with Muslims in islam?
lap up the shit KQED feeds you, you dumb son of a bitch.
Mohamet says in the Koran convert the infidel, if he will not convert, enslave him, if he will not be enslaved, KILL HIM.
It is a CRIME TO CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY in Islam, the penatly is DEATH....so shut the fuck up you dumb son of a bitch, you believe everything people tell you and have no mind of your own to use to stand up and FIGHT FOR THE TRUTH.
MORE 9-11's are coming to a BLUE STATE near you....muslims NEVER STOP KILLING. dumb bastard.
This post was modified by oh_uh_um_ah on 2009-07-21 22:24:28
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Poster:
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spacedface |
Date:
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July 21, 2009 12:56:59pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
"lap up the shit KQED feeds you, you dumb son of a bitch."
"MORE 9-11's are coming to a BLUE STATE near you....muslims NEVER STOP KILLING. dumb bastard."
How very pacificist Christian of you. Peace!
>>>"Mohamet says in the Koran convert the infidel, if he will not convert, enslave him, if he will not be inslaved, KILL HIM.">>>
That is a pack of lies. Citation if you dare. I'm a reader and can and will follow up. Your delusionary world -- that ugly face you pose -- well baby it's your fire.
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Poster:
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oh_uh_um_ah |
Date:
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July 21, 2009 03:29:26pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
name one book you've read on muslims, islam, jihad, or the history of the middle east, north africa, southern europe, the mediterranean, asia minor...
here's a website you're sure to hate:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/JIHAD....what the fuck do you think that is?
The Koran does say if two men commit a lewd act and repent, it is a forgivable sin...its in the book called women, I think it's like sura 4:13-33...I always tell my gay friends.
PS: BRO? like Jesus never called ANYONE a Christian, he always called them sinners. I am a sinner, just like you.
This post was modified by oh_uh_um_ah on 2009-07-21 22:29:26
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Poster:
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spacedface |
Date:
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July 22, 2009 09:36:54am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
I'll name one book for you:
* Turks, Moors, and Englishmen in the Age of Discovery
(Columbia UP, 1999)
I won't name others I read, for you. Just in general, I liked these and found all of them in SF, Berkeley, Palo Alto, or Menlo Park:
* Islam in Britain, 1558-1685 (Cambridge UP, 1998)
Arabic and European captivity accounts (Matar having been himself held hostage in Beirut in 1986)
* Piracy, Slavery, and Redemption (Columbia UP, 2001),
* In the Lands of the Christians: Arabic Travel Writing in the Seventeenth Century (Routledge, 2003).
There's many more, but I'd recommend:
* Maria Menocal, The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Christians, and Jews Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain
* The Cross and The Crescent: The Dramatic Story of the Earliest Encounters by Richard Fletcher
* George Makdisi, The Rise of Colleges (1981) and (only skimmed) The Rise of Humanism (1990)
* The Venture of Islam, 3 Volumes, by Marshall Hodgson (I read parts)
* The Matter of Araby in Medieval England by Dorothee Metlitzki
* American Palestine: Melville, Twain, and the Holy Land Mania by Hilton Obenzinger
* Servants of Allah: African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas by Sylviane Diouf
* The Crescent Obscured: The United States and the Muslim World, 1776-1815 by Robert Allison
* For Zion's Sake: The Judeo-Christian Tradition in American Culture by Fuad Shaban
* Norman Daniel, Islam And The West: The making of an image (formidable for neocons)
* Edward Said, Orientalism (New York: Vintage Books, 1979)
* "The Truth about Muslims" by William Dalrymple in the New York Review of Books
http://www.mafhoum.com/press7/211C32.htm and recently
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23704226-details/Brave+words+for+a+new+peace+with+the+Muslim+world/article.doAlso The Oxford History of Islam, edited by John Esposito is quite readable with nice pictures.
For the religion of Islam you could try:
* The Vision of Islam by Sachiko Murata and William C. Chittick, commissioned by an academic friend I met in the SF Zen Center
* Chinese Gleams of Sufi Light by Sachiko Murata
amazing perspective
http://tinyurl.com/mqq3eu* Ibn 'Abbad of Ronda: Letters on the Sufi Path by John Renard (SJ), part of the Paulist Press Classics of Western Spirituality.
I lost most of these in a fire 7 move last year, so the stroll down memory lane was refreshing. More than I thought; couldn't stop. Thanks.
Several of the books are previewed at:
http://books.google.comBackground on ME:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
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Poster:
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bluedevil |
Date:
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July 22, 2009 11:07:23am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
* The Venture of Islam, 3 Volumes, by Marshall Hodgson (I read parts)
He died during volume 3 so not his completed work. Really kind of a definitive volume. What I relied on when I did graduate level Islamic studies and used extensively on courses in Islamic law (my law school "thesis" was on the concept of "riba" - the Islamic prohibition against interest. The old Deutronomic double standard re usury).
But what do I know?
Here's my main mentor for things Islamic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lawrence
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Poster:
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spacedface |
Date:
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July 22, 2009 11:26:27am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
Don't think I ever read Bruce Lawrence; not an academic.
"Riba", the Islamic prohibition against interest, would seem good to understand now. Who really needs absentee speculation anyway.
I've read 'The Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence' by Mohammad Hashim Kamali and good chucks of stuff by Sherman Jackson, Wael Hallaq, Bernard Weiss, and Nicholas Heer et al, much of it in Hastings library.
I got really interested when I read John Makdisi's 'The Islamic Origins of the Common Law' in the North Carolina Law Review (1999). Makdisi and others think that several fundamental English common law institutions may have been derived or adapted from similar legal institutions in Islamic law and jurisprudence, and introduced to England after the Norman conquest of England by the Normans, who conquered and inherited the Islamic legal administration of the Emirate of Sicily.
His citations and very interesting as well and lead back to his father's work on the rise of colleges and humanism. It turns out oddly enough that rules of freedom of speech found in Islamic lands was prized by Europeans in the Middle Ages and they made steps to copy it.
I spent a lot of time on Islamic law because it was before the rise of the corporation, and I thinking of a larger comparative project, but never even reached the level of this good summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Comparisons_with_common_lawWikipedia does miss important things on methodology though. The basic foundations of Islamic is brilliant, though we disagree with where the branches lead. Five operational principles central to the Islamic tradition are important:
• Trusting reason
• Respecting dissent
• Stressing societal obligation
• Setting priorities
• Embracing maxims
The legal maxims are very interesting:
• Matters will be judged by their purposes
• Certainty will not be overturned by doubt
• Harm must be removed
• Hardship must be alleviated
• Custom has the weight of law
I had long review article now lost, but there's more on the legal maxims here:
http://nawawi.org/downloads/article6.pdfAnyway, I'm not a lawyer or yearning to learn Arabic so job, politics, music, etc crowded out that research branch. I don't have any reason to mention this stuff elsewhere so please excuse the outburst.
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Poster:
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spacedface |
Date:
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July 22, 2009 12:29:56pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
I've read that Muslims don't consider any country to be practicing Islamic law, so it's hard to judge what it really is.
For example some judges didn't think that all apostasy or theft were very serious. To be considered "a thief" you'd have to try hard often. I think the idea was that mercy and love are better, and safer for the judge on the day of judgment.
In the end there must be some middle roads where universals meet.
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Poster:
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bluedevil |
Date:
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July 22, 2009 01:21:42pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
Yea, many different schools of law (Hanafi, Maliki, etc with various branches within each school) as well as differences b/w various Sunnia/ Shi'a beliefs, etc. Not exactly a monolithic worldview. It's a bit different in Marrakesh than it might be in Cairo or Tehran or Islamabad or Jakarta or Lagos ....
Here's some kind of off/on-topic fun:
http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=27526This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-07-22 20:21:42
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Poster:
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bluedevil |
Date:
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July 22, 2009 01:54:09pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
CRAP! Next thing I know, you'll try telling me our hero RT is some type of Sufi crazy mystic channeling guitar dervish. Then again, can one be a lapsed Sufi like a lapsed Catholic?
Then again, The Harder They Come ain't sung by a Rasta - Jimmy Cliff happens to be Muslim (as if it matters).
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Poster:
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bluedevil |
Date:
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July 21, 2009 03:36:49pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: RIP Walter Cronkite |
And if Jesus Christ was as boring as you, I'd have picked up a hammer and slammed in the last nail....
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